Participants
Karsten Hirsch: Co-Founder and CEO of Plastic Fischer
Isabella Madrid Malo: Content Manager at Dots.eco
What is this episode about?
In this episode of the Land, Oceans, and Business podcast, we dive into the theme of plastic with Karsten Hirsch, founder of Plastic Fischer. Karsten shares how his organization is using innovative, low-cost technologies to remove plastic from rivers, preventing it from reaching the ocean. Learn about the challenges of river plastic, the solutions, and the importance of sustainable business practices. Plus, get insights into Karsten’s personal journey and his thoughts on how we can all contribute to a cleaner, more sustainable planet.
Questions covered
- Tell us about yourself and Plastic Fischer- What’s the story?
- What is the biggest challenge you face when cleaning ocean plastic?
- What are the methods you use to clean plastic? Why did you choose them?
- Tell us about the people from the ground? How are you impacting the local economy?
- What happens with the plastic after it’s collected?
- What do you think is the role of businesses when it comes to sustainability?
- What steps do you take in your personal life to add your part to the wellbeing of the planet?
- What can people do to add their part?
- How can people connect with you/Plastic Fischer?
Podcast Audio
Podcast Transcript
Isabella Madrid Malo: Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Land, Oceans, and Business podcast. For those tuning in for the first time, welcome to a world of sustainability and business. For those joining us again, welcome back. Today’s guest is Karsten Hirsch, founder of Plastic Fischer, an environmental organization focusing on removing plastic from rivers to prevent it from entering the ocean.
The twist to all of this is that they’re using an innovative technology to collect and remove the plastic. Karsten will tell us all about it. In this episode, we’ll be discussing plastic challenges and solutions, the role of environmental organizations and businesses in sustainable development, and, of course, my favorite part of the podcast—Karsten’s sustainable lifestyle. So, let’s get the session started. Karsten, welcome to the Land, Oceans, and Business podcast. We’re super happy to have you here.
Karsten Hirsch: Hi, cool. Amazing to be here. So, to start, I think it’s always nice to introduce yourself to the audience.
Karsten Hirsch: I’m from Cologne in Germany. I grew up here, studied law, and graduated from law school. Honestly, I didn’t really know what else to study, so I thought becoming a lawyer might be nice. I did it for seven years, and it was really horrible. But I graduated from law school and then went on vacation to Vietnam with two friends.
We saw how plastic was flowing down the Mekong River around the clock, and we were quite shocked by it. I had never been to Asia before, so I had never seen that level of pollution. We kept talking about this issue during the vacation and afterward when we were back in Germany. We did some research and discovered that no company was addressing ocean plastic pollution from rivers, which surprised us because it seemed so obvious. We found the Ocean Cleanup, of course, which was collecting plastic with vessels from the ocean, and they raised awareness of the issue, but there weren’t any organizations tackling it at the river level.
So, we thought, why don’t we come up with a simple solution to stop the plastic in rivers using a low-tech, low-cost approach that could be scaled up? It’s a huge problem, and we need to address it at scale, which only works if the costs are relatively small. Otherwise, it’s going to be really hard to stop the 8 million tons or more of plastic that enter the oceans annually.
Isabella Madrid Malo: Wow. I was just sharing similar thoughts with someone yesterday—that in the West, we don’t see many issues directly. We’re in this bubble, completely trapped in it, and can’t see what’s really happening. When we manage to pop that bubble, as you did when you went to Vietnam, we see the huge challenges affecting health, local economies, and clean water. There are so many collateral damages caused by plastic pollution, much of which comes from the West and is sent to low-income countries. This is a significant issue.
Karsten Hirsch: Yes, before that, I didn’t really know about the plastic pollution situation. I was lucky to see it at the right time, and I was there with friends who felt the same way about it. We just started Plastic Fischer, and now this has been my life for more than five years. I’m slowly beginning to understand how complex the entire topic of waste and plastic pollution actually is. We started very naively, but we made a point that you can do something about it. You can complain or be sad about it, or you can take action. And I think we did that quite successfully, considering the amount of funding and knowledge we had when we started, and even now. The takeaway here is that you can usually do something about these problems—just take action.
Isabella Madrid Malo: Was it easy to start Plastic Fischer? What was the whole process like? I’m super curious.
Karsten Hirsch: In the beginning, we had an idea for a technology—a water wheel that would automatically collect plastic from the river and throw it onto land. We built a prototype in Cologne about two months after coming back from Vietnam, and it worked immediately. That gave us a lot of motivation, and we founded the company. It was quite straightforward—you just need money and a few steps at the notary. We initiated the company with our own funding and then wanted to replicate the technology and test it in a super-polluted river in Indonesia.
Six months after coming back from Vietnam, we had a company, and I moved to Indonesia to live at the most polluted river in the world to test our technology. Unfortunately, it didn’t work because the rivers are very different during the dry season. The water level and flow were too slow to move the wheel enough to collect the plastic. So, we had to pivot and rethink our technology and business model.
Starting Plastic Fischer wasn’t easy, but we were fully committed and tried to solve it with big efforts. That commitment eventually led to success—coming up with a good technology, finding the right people, and so on.
Isabella Madrid Malo: Wow, that’s quite a story. The reason I ask is that many people find it hard to make a difference, to have an impact, and to play their part. But your story shows that if you have the will and commitment, you can achieve great things. Looking at what Plastic Fischer is today versus a few years ago, the impact it has now is incredible. I’m curious to know about the challenges you face now in cleaning ocean plastic and the technology that is currently working. How did you create this new technology, and how does it work?
Karsten Hirsch: We were living at the Citarum River in Bandung, Indonesia, which went viral on the internet because it was so clogged with plastic. We tested the water wheel there, but it didn’t work. The national army of Indonesia was in charge of cleaning that river, and we worked with them for six months, showing up every day to figure out how to support their efforts.
We observed that they collected plastic with nets during their few hours on the river, but what about the rest of the day? The plastic would still go downstream. So, we built a floating fence to stop the plastic and collect it once a day. After a few iterations, we came up with a proper design using locally available materials at a very low cost, and it worked very well. The army was shocked because, from one day to the next, they had to clean up loads of plastic. When it rains or when there is a lot of plastic influx, our barriers—what we call trash booms—stop tons of plastic in just a few hours.
However, that success led to the next problem: how to handle the waste. Once you’ve collected all this material, what do you do with it? It has no value, it’s wet, mixed with other materials, and it’s not recyclable. Managing that waste and financing its management is our biggest challenge today.
Isabella Madrid Malo: I was about to ask you about that. Where does this plastic come from? Have you done any research on why it accumulates so much in these rivers?
Karsten Hirsch: Yes, we’ve been in more than 40 rivers, including tributaries to bigger rivers. The material we find is local waste in all the places where we operate. This doesn’t mean there is no export of waste into these countries—there certainly is—but in the rivers where we work, the waste is local. The main reason is the lack of infrastructure. People near these rivers don’t have a functioning waste management system.
I often hear from people in Germany or Europe that these people need to be educated more. But Isabella, where would you bring your waste tomorrow if no one were picking it up? It’s not possible. I was in India last year and was shocked because there wasn’t even a place to throw it in the first place—no trash cans, no waste management system from beginning to end. Educating is not the main solution here.
Karsten Hirsch: Exactly. We’re in a luxurious position in Europe, benefiting from existing infrastructure. But if the waste truck stopped picking up my waste tomorrow, I’d be in the same situation as many people in emerging markets. I’d either burn it, throw it in the river, or let it pile up. My call to solve this problem is to create infrastructure, provide alternatives, foster policy-making, and enforce policies for proper waste management. In the meantime, Plastic Fischer still needs to be here to stop the plastic that’s already on its way to the oceans.
Isabella Madrid Malo: You’re absolutely right. We’ve discussed so many things, but what happens once the plastic is collected by you? Where do you take it?
Karsten Hirsch: We first take it to sorting facilities in every city where we operate. We dry the material and then segregate it. Organic material is either composted or put back into the river if it’s natural, like coconuts or dead animals. Everything else goes to our sorting facilities where we dry and segregate it into recyclable and non-recyclable materials.
Recyclables include glass, aluminum, PET, and HDPE, which are sold to off-takers. We only find about 5% recyclable material because an informal waste sector already picks the valuable materials. So, Plastic Fischer deals mainly with non-recyclable materials that no one else is incentivized to pick up. This material is sent to co-processing, where it’s incinerated and used as an energy source in cement plants, supplementing the use of coal. It doesn’t sound as great as turning it into beautiful products, but it’s the reality of what can be done with this material.
Isabella Madrid Malo: It sounds like a very complex process. The life cycle of plastic is really complicated. I’m glad to see you’re taking care to research and explore all possibilities. I’m curious about how you make all of this happen. What do you think is the role of businesses when it comes to sustainability, both in general and with Plastic Fischer specifically?
Karsten Hirsch: We work closely with local communities, hiring people who grew up where we operate and speak the local language. While we have just two people in Germany, we have 80 full-time employees in India and Indonesia. Most of the money we raise in Germany goes to India and Indonesia, where we create jobs that generate environmental impact.
We manage our projects very meticulously, investing time in details, repeating tasks, and double-checking to ensure everything is done as expected. We believe that impact must be transparent and accurately measured. From an operational standpoint, it’s about how dedicated our team is to carrying out the work accurately.
We are financed through sponsorship contracts with organizations that want to contribute to a cleaner world and social impact. We’re clearly an impact enterprise, not just a marketing tool. We create real impact and provide proof of that impact as a service. We’re a for-profit company, but I think that adds value because, unlike a donation where you can’t expect anything in return, with Plastic Fischer, you get something in return—real, measurable impact. That’s something companies and individuals appreciate, and we’re lucky that many have chosen to support us.
Isabella Madrid Malo: You mentioned something very relevant—the need for transparency. There is increasing pressure on companies to report on their sustainability practices, especially in Europe. How can companies make sure they’re not just doing it for marketing but consistently implementing sustainable practices?
Karsten Hirsch: Organizations like Plastic Fischer usually only solve part of the puzzle. We’re the part that goes beyond the supply chain, dealing with the plastic that no one else is incentivized to pick up. We don’t use phrases like “offsetting” or “footprint compensation” because they can be misleading and open doors to greenwashing.
Our approach is fact-based communication—only talk about what you’re actually doing. For example, if you give us money, we’ll remove a certain amount of plastic and create jobs. That’s great, so talk about that, but don’t blow it up unnecessarily. We stand for correct, effective communication where no one can accuse us or our sponsors of greenwashing.
Isabella Madrid Malo: You’re absolutely right. It’s all about clear, effective communication. I think this is super valuable for our listeners. Karsten, we’re moving on to one of the last parts of the podcast, which is the personal lifestyle segment. It’s my favorite part because I love seeing how each guest has such different approaches to sustainability. I was talking to someone yesterday who said there’s no such thing as small steps because when more people take those small steps, it creates a macro impact. I’m curious to hear about your personal lifestyle in terms of sustainability.
Karsten Hirsch: I agree. We need a large number of people doing a little bit rather than just a few people doing everything. I’m not living a zero-plastic lifestyle—it’s really hard to avoid plastic completely. I try to minimize my plastic footprint, consume locally produced food, and choose seasonal food with a lower footprint. I have to travel for work sometimes, so I have a carbon footprint that I try to minimize or compensate for with proper projects.
The biggest culprits are still the large multinationals, and they are the ones who can make the most significant impact. My personal contributions, like riding a bike instead of driving, are valuable, but they won’t save the world from climate change. We need to pressure the big industries—oil, cement, steel—and everyone can contribute in their own way, raising awareness and taking action.
I’m far from being a perfect role model, but I try to do better every day. I also try to increase my handprint, which is the positive impact I can have, and I can do that through my work with Plastic Fischer. Others can do the same by donating to proper organizations, volunteering, or contributing their skills to organizations that need them.
Isabella Madrid Malo: There are so many different ways to contribute, and you’re right—you don’t have to start your own company. There are always ways to make a difference. It’s also important to remember that even though corporations have a bigger impact, as individuals, we should still do our part.
Karsten Hirsch: Absolutely. Many people have jobs and can motivate their organizations to contribute. The power that employees have over their employers is significant. If you work for an organization, talk to the decision-makers and suggest supporting a cause. You might not even have to spend your own money—maybe your company can help. It’s all about raising awareness and taking action.
Isabella Madrid Malo: Absolutely. It’s all about having a voice. Just to wrap up, Karsten, how can people connect with you and support Plastic Fischer?
Karsten Hirsch: You can find me on LinkedIn—I’m pretty easy to reach there. Our website is plasticfischer.com—plastic with a “c” and Fischer with an “s.” You’ll probably find it in the show notes as well. You can follow us on Instagram, subscribe to our newsletter, or reach out to me on LinkedIn. You can support us by financing our operations per kilogram of plastic removed and processed, which can be done on our website. Introduce us to someone you think can help Plastic Fischer scale—financially, with contacts, or in other ways. There are many ways to support us, so if you have an idea, just reach out to me, and we can explore it.
Isabella Madrid Malo: Great. Thank you so much, Karsten, for your time. This has been a fantastic episode filled with knowledge and motivation. I’m super happy we could have this conversation. Thanks again for joining us today.
Karsten Hirsch: Thank you, everyone, for tuning in.
Isabella Madrid Malo: Thanks a lot. Have a great day.
If you liked this episode, check out the rest of them here. You can find our podcast on Spotify and Youtube @Land, Oceans, & Business.
